Building in a 2.3 Module with 2.4 installed

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Building in a 2.3 Module with 2.4 installed

Post by kalbaern on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:18 pm

Bottom line is, don't do it. CEP 2.4 adds to many of the haks used by CEP 2.3. Therefore, if you're building in a CEP 2.3 (or earlier possibly) module, CEP 2.4 will have added to the appearances you find in the toolset even if you've not yet changed/added your hak list.

Since there's no distinction in most appearance names as to which CEP 2.4 added, a builder can easilly add appearances unknowingly into a CEP 2.3 Module. Then players will either encounter invisible placeables or have other issues, up to and including crashes in areas.

The easiest remedy for a Builder seems to be to just rerun the CEP Updater for 2.3. This should fix the haks that 2.4 essentially breaks.

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Re: Building in a 2.3 Module with 2.4 installed

Post by TheExcimer-500 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:25 pm

"This should fix the haks that 2.4 essentially breaks."

Can you elaborate on what 2.4 "breaks" in terms of compatibility with 2.3?

Thank you.

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Re: Building in a 2.3 Module with 2.4 installed

Post by kalbaern on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:54 pm

CEP 2.4 adds appearances to the "core6" hak. When working on a module (two PWs in my own case) that are still at 2.3, there is no way for a builder to determine that the appearances are from 2.3 or 2.4 if they are using 2.4 themselves, but working on a module built around 2.3.

Since 2.4 adds the "core7" hak, there's no reason the additions made to the "core6" hak couldn't be moved into "core7" to maintain backwards compatability. Is there? If I'm mistaken, then CEP 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 appearnaces should all contain a prefix or a suffix denoting which version they arrived with so builders using a "higher" version while working on an older module can avoid conflicts.

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Re: Building in a 2.3 Module with 2.4 installed

Post by The Amethyst Dragon on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:06 am

My suggestion for working with the differences:

Take a copy of the version 2.3 appearance.2da file. Copy it to your version of cep2_custom.hak (only on your build computer), which should be above the CEP's latest top hak. If not using that hak for your server, just make your own custom top hak that you use just for building.

Either way, the 2.3 version will override the 2.4 version on your build computer, hiding any of those appearances you don't want to be able to use. Then, when you transfer the module to wherever your are hosting it, just make sure to keep said older appearance.2da file out of the server's haks.

Edit: same goes for placeables.2da...newer stuff won't show up if the 2.3 version is in a hak higher in the hak list for building.
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Re: Building in a 2.3 Module with 2.4 installed

Post by kalbaern on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:07 am

The Amethyst Dragon wrote:My suggestion for working with the differences:

Take a copy of the version 2.3 appearance.2da file. Copy it to your version of cep2_custom.hak (only on your build computer), which should be above the CEP's latest top hak. If not using that hak for your server, just make your own custom top hak that you use just for building.

Either way, the 2.3 version will override the 2.4 version on your build computer, hiding any of those appearances you don't want to be able to use. Then, when you transfer the module to wherever your are hosting it, just make sure to keep said older appearance.2da file out of the server's haks.

Edit: same goes for placeables.2da...newer stuff won't show up if the 2.3 version is in a hak higher in the hak list for building.

For myself, I just use a separate install with 2.3 and another with 2.4 now. That's for myself and I'm fine. The actual problem is that most PWs have multiple builders, at least some of the larger ones do. Many also accept player contributions. A few times a month now, I get involved in sorting bugs on my own and another PW where I'm a builder and sometimes other PWs that I aid as needed. The amount of times that someone building for a 2.3 module breaks it because they have 2.4 installed is growing constantly. It shouldn't.

The CEP advertises tthat it is backwards compatible. The CEP has promised to remain backwards compatible. The facts however are that neither are true.

Do I expect anything to be done? No. I hope something will be done to correct this and most of the other bugs associated with the CEP 2+ versions. Do I expect anything to actually get done? Again, no. There's been a long list of bugs reported the past few years that have been ignored. A few are simple. Just some models needing compiled or recompiled. Most need more work. Some things will never work and should just be removed. You won't break backwards compatibility by removing something no one has ever been able to use.

I'm going to spend the next week or so digging up and posting all the unresolved bugs from 2.1 to 2.4. I'll post .. or more correctly, repost them here. For a start .. how about that "banded hog" appearance that's been reported as crashing toolsets ever since 2.2?

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